The Trinity

Introduction

The great majority of people (Christians included) are completely baffled or put off by the Trinity and how to explain it to others or even comprehend it themselves. In the following paragraphs I will try and bring a hint of clarity to something which so many atheists and Christians alike misrepresent and misinterpret. I will try and include as some relevant scripture verses to lend support to my attempted description of something that is necessarily beyond our feeble finite minds.

Before people object and say "How can you say that we necessarily cannot comprehend the fullness of God‽", I say to you, how many of you understand the Coriolis effect, seemingly random radioactive decay and the mystery of human love?

There are things which only a select few of the intelligentsia understand, because they are gifted. I'm not saying that Christians are more intelligent than the rest of the world, because that would be untrue; we merely follow one who has the relevant qualification; that is, God. If God is truly God then He must be many orders of magnitude of complexity than we can possibly fathom by ourselves. Luckily God has revealed Himself to us in His Son Jesus Christ.

Central to an understanding of the Trinity is an understanding of the person of Jesus Christ. Luckily through the writings of the Gospel writers Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; and the authors of various letters to various churches Paul and John; we can know who Jesus was. The scope of this document is limited in that I am not out to prove the veracity of the Christian Bible and its contents, I am working off the assumption that people curious enough will research other sources to plunder.

Short History

This problem was tackled from two different angles by the two major churches around at the time of Emperor Augustus, the Roman Church (not yet Catholic, just the Roman Church) and the Eastern Church.

The Roman Church were heavily influenced by Greek Platonic ideas of ultimate oneness, so as a result started with the idea of the oneness of God and tried to figure out how the 3 persons of the Trinity fitted into this oneness. This gave rise to Modalism as a result of misunderstanding their intent, which was attempting to prove that the One God is the Father, Son and Spirit. This isn't a very good approach because it gives the impression that there is an underlying essence to the Godhead, rather than the Trinity being God as reflected in Thomas Aquinas' Beatific Vision of God:

"Final and perfect happiness can consist in nothing else than the vision of the Divine Essence." (SUMMA THEOLOGICA §8)

The Eastern Church on the other hand started out with the 3 persons of the Trinity and tried to work out how they were one. This gave rise to Tritheism as a result of misunderstanding their intent, which was attempting to prove that Father Son and Spirit are the One God. This is the better of the approaches since it uses the Trinity as the base from which to build, rather than some underlying oneness on which to build the Trinity on as reflected in part of the Athanasian Creed:

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

Various Trinitarian Heresies

The key to attempting to understand the Trinity is to avoid the various heresies that have sprung up over time as people try and fit God into predefined boxes of what they think God should be, rather than relying on God's own revelation of Himself to us through Jesus.

Sabellianism/Modalism/Monarchianism

Many Christians view the Trinity as God operating in various 'modes' throughout the history of time. Eg God was the Father in Creation and throughout the Hebrew Scriptures (Christian Old Testament), God was the Son throughout Jesus' life on Earth until the Ascension of Christ, and God is now the Holy Spirit in the present Messianic Age.

This is wrong as it gives the impression that God puts on various 'masks' to suit Him; a consequence of this is that we don't get to know the God behind the masks.

Scriptural Support against Modalism occurs throughout the Bible in various places:

• When God refers to Himself in the plural (Gen 1:26, 3:22)
• When the Father sends the Son by the Holy Spirit (Matt 1:20)
• When the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father to baptize the Son (Mark 1:9-11)
• When the Son prays to the Father (Matt 26:39)

Tritheism

Many view the Trinity as three individual 'godlets' which merely work together towards a common goal. The Mormons have this view of the Godhead (CARM Apologetics - LDS Doctrines §19).

This is Tritheism as it means that the Trinity would only be one in purpose instead of one unified Being.

Scriptural support against Tritheism occurs throughout the Bible in various places:

• "Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Deut 6:4)
• "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30)
• "For there is but one GOD over all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all!" (1 Cor 8:6)

Patripassionism

Patripassionism is related to Modalism, but stresses that that is the same God in the different modes, rather than God hiding behind the different masks of Father, Son and Spirit. It holds that the Father is the Father, the Father is the Son and the Father is the Spirit; that is that the Father suffered on the cross for our sins, as opposed to the God with the mask of the Son. Oneness Pentecostalism holds to this doctrine (CARM Apologetics - Oneness Pentecostalism Teachings §Outside of Orthodoxy¶3,4).

This heresy takes away the deity and preexistence of the person of Jesus Christ, who said Himself that He was pre and coexistent with God the Father when in debate with the Jewish Pharisees.

Scriptual support against Patripassionism occurs throughout the Bible in various places:

• "Before Abraham, I am" (John 8:58)
• Jesus shouting to God the Father (Matt 27:46)
• The Baptismal Formula (Matt 28:19)
• The Lord's Prayer (Matt 6:9-13)
  
• The Preexistent Word (John 1:1-18)

The Revealed Trinity

With all the above in mind, we come to the whole point of this post, the actual Trinity! Woo yeah.

First we have to get some relevant vocabulary before we attempt to go through this explanation of the Trinity:

• Person - Something defined by the relationships between other persons
• Individual - Something which is separate and unique from other beings, and may be greater or inferior in relation to other beings

The reason this distinction has to be made is because in society is common to view 'individual' and 'person' as interchangeable words. But let me give you the following example:

I am the brother of my sister, and she is a sister because I am her brother.

Now, she could exist as an individual without me needing to exist, but would no longer be a sister. This is the difference between the words 'individual' (me) and person '(brother)'. A person only exists due to the relationships formed or in place, an individual doesn't need to have aspects of person-hood to exist. Just like a coconut is an individual, but doesn't need to be related to by me to necessarily exist.

This understanding of the two terms is crucial to an understanding of the Triune God.

• The Father is only the Father because of the Son and the love of the Spirit
  
• The Son is only the Son because of the Father and the love of the Spirit
• The Spirit is only the Spirit because of the love between the Father and the Son

They are not individuals; because the Son would not exist without the Father and the love of the Spirit, the Father would not exist without the Son and the love of the Spirit, and the Spirit would not exist without the Father and the Son; they only exist due to the relationships between themselves.

This sorts the problem of Tritheism, in that they are not individual 'godlets', but are a united individual being of three persons.

It also sorts the problem of Modalism, in that God doesn't change His mask depending on the situation; this is seen in that the persons of the Trinity interact with each other, which wouldn't make sense if they were masks.

Conclusion

The Trinity has many possible pitfalls when attempting to understand it, but if you look hard and hard enough it eventually crystallizes and makes sense; sense in the same way that 11-Dimensional String Theory is incomprehensible but works.

I think that we can understand the structure of the Trinity, but the incomprehensible parts would be 'why' it exists, and how it is powerful; that is what I think it means when God says "My ways are higher than your ways" (Isaiah 55:9)

I hope this helps people. It did for me anyway!

Arminian and Calvinistic Prayers

A quick post which is intended to be a light hearted jab at both doctrines

Our Father, who art in Heaven
(but only if I also want You to reign, otherwise just take a backseat)
Hallowed be thy name
(Harold?)
Thy Kingdom come
(it's up to me to establish it!)
Thy will be done
(through the joining of my will and Your will!)
On Earth as it is in Heaven
(yay, harps)
Give us this day our daily bread
(I can get my own bread, but thanks anyway)
Forgive us our trespasses
(lots of those)
As we forgive those who trespass against us
(hey, they're choosing sin, who am I to judge)
Lead us not into temptation
(this does not make sense with the humanist-rationalist view of Free Will; since God gives me choice, He does not me lead into sin)
But deliver us from evil
(within the framework of free-agent libertarianism of course, otherwise Satan might get annoyed that his inalienable right for free-will was being infringed upon)
For thine is the Kingdom, the power and the glory
(well yes)
Forever and ever,
Amen
(Amen)

Our Father, who art in Heaven
(and so negates any responsibility from me, phew!)
Hallowed be thy name
(Harold?)
Thy Kingdom come
(and it will, we'll just kick back and watch it happen)
Thy will be done
(yeah, save the elect somehow)
On Earth as it is in Heaven
(yay, harps)
Give us this day our daily bread
(according to your Divine will, I'm incapable of getting it myself)
Forgive us our trespasses
(hey I'm elect, no need for forgiveness here!)
As we forgive those who trespass against us
(I'd rather they burn, and some will so I don't really see the point in forgiving the Hell-bound)
Lead us not into temptation
(pretty please, but whatever You say, goes, I guess)
But deliver us from evil
(as You have and will)
For thine is the Kingdom, the power and the glory
(well yes)
Forever and ever,
Amen
(Amen)

So Sorry

"Why?" you may well ask. Could it be that I'm sorry for the multitude of sins I've thought and commited, or the plethora of good works lefts undone, or that I haven't blogged for a good while (shock horror). All these are perfectly legitimate things to be remorseful about, and which, by the way, I am; but no, the primary reason I am sorry is the way I've spoken, or rather, written about my Lord Saviour Jesus Christ.

I thought I was persuing truth in my unitarian endeavours, but no, I was merely reconstucted an idol so oft manufactured by the minds of mere men (women have more important and productive things to ponder) and had systematically blinded myself to the obvious, revealed perfection of God. I in my ignorance sought to put labels on God (those that know me know that I love categorization) on what He should be and so based my subsequent self made theology on this.

How can such a diverse and yet unified world stem from a simple (even if it was rather big) being? And how can love and hate, joy and sorrow, pleasure and pain be, if there was but one being of which these necessarily relational feelings could not exist, unless there were other beings (which would be polytheism). Are we to suggest that the Creation has more than the Creator? How could it be that a being in which no emotion, diversity or reason, would create something which is full of it. How could the Creation not be at odds with the Creator?

So many questions, all leading to the central reason of this post:

God is triune.

As much as it galls me to admit I'm wrong, I will. I am wrong. And it's so freeing!

Maybe later I'll submit more theological reasons, but this is right.

Dogged Determination

I wouldn't call it dogged... Or determination for that matter. So right from the start the whole of the post seems to have lost all point, direction and intelligibility (is that a word?).

Anyway, I think the main aim for this post was to give an update on my current theological outlook as regards to the Trinity. Been struggling with this 'issue' for the better part of a year now, so it's not a passing phase.

At the moment evidence, people and scripture is mounting up on both sides of the argument, which i won't bore you with. But whichever God decides to reveal Himself in, I will accept it, but obviously not without teasing out any objections I have made clear in my previous postings.

I've spoken to a great many people about this, all Trinitarians, and all reasonably intelligent; and they believe in it, which leads me to doubt my doubts. It's a very hard subject. I want to be Christian, but I'm not comfortable worshipping Jesus as God if I'm not sure if He is God (or a 3rd of God, or whatever).

Want to put more intelligent sounding arguments in the post, but I can't be bothered at the moment, also I need to put a disclaimer somewhere on the site... Hmmz.

I find I can't pray with other Christians without thinking either "good they're praying how Jesus taught we should" or "why are they praying to Jesus and calling Him the Father" or just doctoring anything they say. It's well annoying.

I wish I was eloquent in day to day life and wish I could articulate my views and thoughts in an understandable and coherrant manner, I just end up getting several mental blocks after every other word and so find it so hard to pray out loud, debate about anything or socialise with people who I haven't clicked with.

My post looks reasonably reasonable (ha) from here, but will probably appear as many line entries, worthy of a primary school gold star. Ooo yeah.

Anyway, an update on my theological position:

Jesus Christ is Son of God, fully man, Saviour of humankind, King over Creation, only mediator between God the Father and man
YaHWeH is God, and all that that entails
Holy Spirit is YHWH God's holy spirit, given as a gift to various prophets and to all followers now

But this may change depending on whether my questions are answered:

• Is Trinitarian belief idolatry/polytheism?
• Is Unitarian belief denying Jesus in front of man?
• Am I, in a word, screwed either way?

Listening to PK7 and Hillsongs, they're awesome. That is not subjective opinion, it is objective fact, like the absoluteness of morality.

More Trinity wrestling! Joy.

A few days (maybe weeks, I have lost track of time recently; i now measure weeks by church) ago I had a fairly productive conversation with Jake about the Trinity and verses that seemingly support it. It was the first time I dipped into the greek and hebrew documents to find the meanings behind the words used.

Thank God (no really) for chat histories!

In the conversation I reiterated my understanding of John 1 (the Word) in that the Word was God's plan of salvation manifest in the Christ Jesus.

He also asked for my understanding of when Thomas says "My Lord and my God" to Jesus after some obviously phenomenal event (eg appearing to him after being dead for an inordinate amount of time, or juggling 5 flaming oxen blindfolded). I said that the word used for God was not YHVH, but theos which was also applied to Satan; namely:

• 2 Cor 4:4 - The god(theos) of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God(theos).

He responded by saying the meaning and nuances of the word are lost in translation, and that it's the surrounding context and words that give the real meaning behind the word; in this case the qualifier is "of this world".

I responded (with the help of the BlueLetterBible concordance) with the verse:

• John 10:34 - Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Further on Jesus is responding to the Jewish priests accusations of Jesus equating Himself with YHVH, by saying that it says in their scriptures that other men were called gods, and yet scripture was unbroken. But more to the point, this short verse is very direct in that God calls men gods in the Hebrew Scriptures, and this word is carried over as theos!

Excuse the exclamation mark, I got very excited at that point.

If Jesus really was God, then they should've used YHVH or some other non-confusable word in reference to Jesus.

Also, the first Jews will have been strict monotheists; i fail to see how the Trinity doctrine would fit in comfortably with their beliefs. If it was the doctrine then surely an extensive Trinity proof document will have been produced for avid scrutiny by would-be Jewish converts, something along the line of the Athanasian creed, but without the cyclical mystical nonsense. Speaking of cyclical mystical nonsense, how's this for psychobabble:

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

In case you're wondering, that was the Athanasian creed, which traditional churches hold to fervorently.

#25 is confusing to me especially, since Jesus actually says that "The Father is greater than I". This is partly described by #33, but it suggests that Christ has two distinct natures when it should a unified entity... But that's the problem you run into when you try and force God into Christ.

Sorry for the uncharacteristically poor presentation and content, I've been awake 23 hours since my sleep pattern is way out of whack, and I'm attempting the "stay up through 'abnormal' bedtime and go to sleep at a 'normal' bedtime" strategy. I've tried it before but usually manage to get totally bored and fall asleep at my desk, confounding the whole process and further wrecking my sleep pattern.

So, a word of advice, don't stay up late into the wee hours of the morning playing Rome: Total War and Battlefield 2142...