Cardinal Hayward

The Trinity

2007-04-30T01:06:00.001+01:00

Introduction

The great majority of people (Christians included) are completely baffled or put off by the Trinity and how to explain it to others or even comprehend it themselves. In the following paragraphs I will try and bring a hint of clarity to something which so many atheists and Christians alike misrepresent and misinterpret. I will try and include as some relevant scripture verses to lend support to my attempted description of something that is necessarily beyond our feeble finite minds.

Before people object and say "How can you say that we necessarily cannot comprehend the fullness of God‽", I say to you, how many of you understand the Coriolis effect, seemingly random radioactive decay and the mystery of human love?

There are things which only a select few of the intelligentsia understand, because they are gifted. I'm not saying that Christians are more intelligent than the rest of the world, because that would be untrue; we merely follow one who has the relevant qualification; that is, God. If God is truly God then He must be many orders of magnitude of complexity than we can possibly fathom by ourselves. Luckily God has revealed Himself to us in His Son Jesus Christ.

Central to an understanding of the Trinity is an understanding of the person of Jesus Christ. Luckily through the writings of the Gospel writers Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; and the authors of various letters to various churches Paul and John; we can know who Jesus was. The scope of this document is limited in that I am not out to prove the veracity of the Christian Bible and its contents, I am working off the assumption that people curious enough will research other sources to plunder.

Short History

This problem was tackled from two different angles by the two major churches around at the time of Emperor Augustus, the Roman Church (not yet Catholic, just the Roman Church) and the Eastern Church.

The Roman Church were heavily influenced by Greek Platonic ideas of ultimate oneness, so as a result started with the idea of the oneness of God and tried to figure out how the 3 persons of the Trinity fitted into this oneness. This gave rise to Modalism as a result of misunderstanding their intent, which was attempting to prove that the One God is the Father, Son and Spirit. This isn't a very good approach because it gives the impression that there is an underlying essence to the Godhead, rather than the Trinity being God as reflected in Thomas Aquinas' Beatific Vision of God:

"Final and perfect happiness can consist in nothing else than the vision of the Divine Essence." (SUMMA THEOLOGICA §8)

The Eastern Church on the other hand started out with the 3 persons of the Trinity and tried to work out how they were one. This gave rise to Tritheism as a result of misunderstanding their intent, which was attempting to prove that Father Son and Spirit are the One God. This is the better of the approaches since it uses the Trinity as the base from which to build, rather than some underlying oneness on which to build the Trinity on as reflected in part of the Athanasian Creed:

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

Various Trinitarian Heresies

The key to attempting to understand the Trinity is to avoid the various heresies that have sprung up over time as people try and fit God into predefined boxes of what they think God should be, rather than relying on God's own revelation of Himself to us through Jesus.

Sabellianism/Modalism/Monarchianism

Many Christians view the Trinity as God operating in various 'modes' throughout the history of time. Eg God was the Father in Creation and throughout the Hebrew Scriptures (Christian Old Testament), God was the Son throughout Jesus' life on Earth until the Ascension of Christ, and God is now the Holy Spirit in the present Messianic Age.

This is wrong as it gives the impression that God puts on various 'masks' to suit Him; a consequence of this is that we don't get to know the God behind the masks.

Scriptural Support against Modalism occurs throughout the Bible in various places:

When God refers to Himself in the plural (Gen 1:26, 3:22)
When the Father sends the Son by the Holy Spirit (Matt 1:20)
When the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father to baptize the Son (Mark 1:9-11)
When the Son prays to the Father (Matt 26:39)

Tritheism

Many view the Trinity as three individual 'godlets' which merely work together towards a common goal. The Mormons have this view of the Godhead (CARM Apologetics - LDS Doctrines §19).

This is Tritheism as it means that the Trinity would only be one in purpose instead of one unified Being.

Scriptural support against Tritheism occurs throughout the Bible in various places:

"Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Deut 6:4)
"I and the Father are one" (John 10:30)
"For there is but one GOD over all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all!" (1 Cor 8:6)

Patripassionism

Patripassionism is related to Modalism, but stresses that that is the same God in the different modes, rather than God hiding behind the different masks of Father, Son and Spirit. It holds that the Father is the Father, the Father is the Son and the Father is the Spirit; that is that the Father suffered on the cross for our sins, as opposed to the God with the mask of the Son. Oneness Pentecostalism holds to this doctrine (CARM Apologetics - Oneness Pentecostalism Teachings §Outside of Orthodoxy¶3,4).

This heresy takes away the deity and preexistence of the person of Jesus Christ, who said Himself that He was pre and coexistent with God the Father when in debate with the Jewish Pharisees.

Scriptual support against Patripassionism occurs throughout the Bible in various places:

"Before Abraham, I am" (John 8:58)
Jesus shouting to God the Father (Matt 27:46)
The Baptismal Formula (Matt 28:19)
The Lord's Prayer (Matt 6:9-13)
The Preexistent Word (John 1:1-18)

The Revealed Trinity

With all the above in mind, we come to the whole point of this post, the actual Trinity! Woo yeah.

First we have to get some relevant vocabulary before we attempt to go through this explanation of the Trinity:

Person - Something defined by the relationships between other persons
Individual - Something which is separate and unique from other beings, and may be greater or inferior in relation to other beings

The reason this distinction has to be made is because in society is common to view 'individual' and 'person' as interchangeable words. But let me give you the following example:

I am the brother of my sister, and she is a sister because I am her brother.

Now, she could exist as an individual without me needing to exist, but would no longer be a sister. This is the difference between the words 'individual' (me) and person '(brother)'. A person only exists due to the relationships formed or in place, an individual doesn't need to have aspects of person-hood to exist. Just like a coconut is an individual, but doesn't need to be related to by me to necessarily exist.

This understanding of the two terms is crucial to an understanding of the Triune God.

The Father is only the Father because of the Son and the love of the Spirit
The Son is only the Son because of the Father and the love of the Spirit
The Spirit is only the Spirit because of the love between the Father and the Son

They are not individuals; because the Son would not exist without the Father and the love of the Spirit, the Father would not exist without the Son and the love of the Spirit, and the Spirit would not exist without the Father and the Son; they only exist due to the relationships between themselves.

This sorts the problem of Tritheism, in that they are not individual 'godlets', but are a united individual being of three persons.

It also sorts the problem of Modalism, in that God doesn't change His mask depending on the situation; this is seen in that the persons of the Trinity interact with each other, which wouldn't make sense if they were masks.

Conclusion

The Trinity has many possible pitfalls when attempting to understand it, but if you look hard and hard enough it eventually crystallizes and makes sense; sense in the same way that 11-Dimensional String Theory is incomprehensible but works.

I think that we can understand the structure of the Trinity, but the incomprehensible parts would be 'why' it exists, and how it is powerful; that is what I think it means when God says "My ways are higher than your ways" (Isaiah 55:9)

I hope this helps people. It did for me anyway!

Arminian and Calvinistic Prayers

2007-04-25T05:53:00.000+01:00

A quick post which is intended to be a light hearted jab at both doctrines

Our Father, who art in Heaven
(but only if I also want You to reign, otherwise just take a backseat)
Hallowed be thy name
(Harold?)
Thy Kingdom come
(it's up to me to establish it!)
Thy will be done
(through the joining of my will and Your will!)
On Earth as it is in Heaven
(yay, harps)
Give us this day our daily bread
(I can get my own bread, but thanks anyway)
Forgive us our trespasses
(lots of those)
As we forgive those who trespass against us
(hey, they're choosing sin, who am I to judge)
Lead us not into temptation
(this does not make sense with the humanist-rationalist view of Free Will; since God gives me choice, He does not me lead into sin)
But deliver us from evil
(within the framework of free-agent libertarianism of course, otherwise Satan might get annoyed that his inalienable right for free-will was being infringed upon)
For thine is the Kingdom, the power and the glory
(well yes)
Forever and ever,
Amen
(Amen)

Our Father, who art in Heaven
(and so negates any responsibility from me, phew!)
Hallowed be thy name
(Harold?)
Thy Kingdom come
(and it will, we'll just kick back and watch it happen)
Thy will be done
(yeah, save the elect somehow)
On Earth as it is in Heaven
(yay, harps)
Give us this day our daily bread
(according to your Divine will, I'm incapable of getting it myself)
Forgive us our trespasses
(hey I'm elect, no need for forgiveness here!)
As we forgive those who trespass against us
(I'd rather they burn, and some will so I don't really see the point in forgiving the Hell-bound)
Lead us not into temptation
(pretty please, but whatever You say, goes, I guess)
But deliver us from evil
(as You have and will)
For thine is the Kingdom, the power and the glory
(well yes)
Forever and ever,
Amen
(Amen)

So Sorry

2007-04-06T17:56:00.000+01:00

"Why?" you may well ask. Could it be that I'm sorry for the multitude of sins I've thought and commited, or the plethora of good works lefts undone, or that I haven't blogged for a good while (shock horror). All these are perfectly legitimate things to be remorseful about, and which, by the way, I am; but no, the primary reason I am sorry is the way I've spoken, or rather, written about my Lord Saviour Jesus Christ.

I thought I was persuing truth in my unitarian endeavours, but no, I was merely reconstucted an idol so oft manufactured by the minds of mere men (women have more important and productive things to ponder) and had systematically blinded myself to the obvious, revealed perfection of God. I in my ignorance sought to put labels on God (those that know me know that I love categorization) on what He should be and so based my subsequent self made theology on this.

How can such a diverse and yet unified world stem from a simple (even if it was rather big) being? And how can love and hate, joy and sorrow, pleasure and pain be, if there was but one being of which these necessarily relational feelings could not exist, unless there were other beings (which would be polytheism). Are we to suggest that the Creation has more than the Creator? How could it be that a being in which no emotion, diversity or reason, would create something which is full of it. How could the Creation not be at odds with the Creator?

So many questions, all leading to the central reason of this post:

God is triune.

As much as it galls me to admit I'm wrong, I will. I am wrong. And it's so freeing!

Maybe later I'll submit more theological reasons, but this is right.

Dogged Determination

2007-03-07T01:56:00.000Z

I wouldn't call it dogged... Or determination for that matter. So right from the start the whole of the post seems to have lost all point, direction and intelligibility (is that a word?).

Anyway, I think the main aim for this post was to give an update on my current theological outlook as regards to the Trinity. Been struggling with this 'issue' for the better part of a year now, so it's not a passing phase.

At the moment evidence, people and scripture is mounting up on both sides of the argument, which i won't bore you with. But whichever God decides to reveal Himself in, I will accept it, but obviously not without teasing out any objections I have made clear in my previous postings.

I've spoken to a great many people about this, all Trinitarians, and all reasonably intelligent; and they believe in it, which leads me to doubt my doubts. It's a very hard subject. I want to be Christian, but I'm not comfortable worshipping Jesus as God if I'm not sure if He is God (or a 3rd of God, or whatever).

Want to put more intelligent sounding arguments in the post, but I can't be bothered at the moment, also I need to put a disclaimer somewhere on the site... Hmmz.

I find I can't pray with other Christians without thinking either "good they're praying how Jesus taught we should" or "why are they praying to Jesus and calling Him the Father" or just doctoring anything they say. It's well annoying.

I wish I was eloquent in day to day life and wish I could articulate my views and thoughts in an understandable and coherrant manner, I just end up getting several mental blocks after every other word and so find it so hard to pray out loud, debate about anything or socialise with people who I haven't clicked with.

My post looks reasonably reasonable (ha) from here, but will probably appear as many line entries, worthy of a primary school gold star. Ooo yeah.

Anyway, an update on my theological position:

Jesus Christ is Son of God, fully man, Saviour of humankind, King over Creation, only mediator between God the Father and man
YaHWeH is God, and all that that entails
Holy Spirit is YHWH God's holy spirit, given as a gift to various prophets and to all followers now

But this may change depending on whether my questions are answered:

Is Trinitarian belief idolatry/polytheism?
Is Unitarian belief denying Jesus in front of man?
Am I, in a word, screwed either way?

Listening to PK7 and Hillsongs, they're awesome. That is not subjective opinion, it is objective fact, like the absoluteness of morality.

More Trinity wrestling! Joy.

2007-02-04T16:31:00.000Z

A few days (maybe weeks, I have lost track of time recently; i now measure weeks by church) ago I had a fairly productive conversation with Jake about the Trinity and verses that seemingly support it. It was the first time I dipped into the greek and hebrew documents to find the meanings behind the words used.

Thank God (no really) for chat histories!

In the conversation I reiterated my understanding of John 1 (the Word) in that the Word was God's plan of salvation manifest in the Christ Jesus.

He also asked for my understanding of when Thomas says "My Lord and my God" to Jesus after some obviously phenomenal event (eg appearing to him after being dead for an inordinate amount of time, or juggling 5 flaming oxen blindfolded). I said that the word used for God was not YHVH, but theos which was also applied to Satan; namely:

2 Cor 4:4 - The god(theos) of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God(theos).

He responded by saying the meaning and nuances of the word are lost in translation, and that it's the surrounding context and words that give the real meaning behind the word; in this case the qualifier is "of this world".

I responded (with the help of the BlueLetterBible concordance) with the verse:

John 10:34 - Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Further on Jesus is responding to the Jewish priests accusations of Jesus equating Himself with YHVH, by saying that it says in their scriptures that other men were called gods, and yet scripture was unbroken. But more to the point, this short verse is very direct in that God calls men gods in the Hebrew Scriptures, and this word is carried over as theos!

Excuse the exclamation mark, I got very excited at that point.

If Jesus really was God, then they should've used YHVH or some other non-confusable word in reference to Jesus.

Also, the first Jews will have been strict monotheists; i fail to see how the Trinity doctrine would fit in comfortably with their beliefs. If it was the doctrine then surely an extensive Trinity proof document will have been produced for avid scrutiny by would-be Jewish converts, something along the line of the Athanasian creed, but without the cyclical mystical nonsense. Speaking of cyclical mystical nonsense, how's this for psychobabble:

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

In case you're wondering, that was the Athanasian creed, which traditional churches hold to fervorently.

#25 is confusing to me especially, since Jesus actually says that "The Father is greater than I". This is partly described by #33, but it suggests that Christ has two distinct natures when it should a unified entity... But that's the problem you run into when you try and force God into Christ.

Sorry for the uncharacteristically poor presentation and content, I've been awake 23 hours since my sleep pattern is way out of whack, and I'm attempting the "stay up through 'abnormal' bedtime and go to sleep at a 'normal' bedtime" strategy. I've tried it before but usually manage to get totally bored and fall asleep at my desk, confounding the whole process and further wrecking my sleep pattern.

So, a word of advice, don't stay up late into the wee hours of the morning playing Rome: Total War and Battlefield 2142...

I made a piece of art!

2006-12-21T16:00:00.000Z

I had one of my creative spasms today; the result of which is the actualization of the above. It's a kind of image/vision I've had in my head for quite a while.

Note that it's in 1440x900 because that's what my monitor's resolution is.

Recommended Christian Music and Starving Dogs

2006-11-22T00:38:00.000Z

Hey,

Just want to recommend some random Christian tracks to you all!

They'll come thick and fast and in a variety of different styles and differing levels of cheesiness. So here we go!

Amy Grant - Lead Me On
Sounds very 90's ish, but it's a real fun track!

Newsboys - He Reigns
I had to have a friend tell me that this was quite cheesy, and I suppose "From the African plains" is quite a naff line. Nevertheless it is saved by the uplifting chorus and pre and post choruses. Best part of the song:

And all the powers of darkness,
Tremble at what they've just heard,
'cause all the powers of darkness,
Can't drown out a single word...

When all God's children sing out:
Glory glory!
Hallelujah!
He reigns! He reigns!

Kathryn Scott - Hungry
This is probably the best personal worship song made, it's so frank and heartfelt. Makes a tear or two form everytime. Best line:

Jesus, You’re all this heart is living for

Rebecca St. James - Omega

May the grace of our Lord be with you,
now and always may you stay,
blameless till he comes

May the love of our Lord be with you,
now and always may you stay,
blameless till he comes

I don't know why that's so amazing, but it just is.

Starfield - How Great Thou Art / Great Is The Lord
Good guitar hook (very simple but effective). I like how they used one of their own song's (Great Is The Lord) tune to put some lyrics to How Great Thou Art. I think it works rather well but was surprised when I thought that I wasn't getting the CD I paid for! (That's a whole different story, which I will probably go into on my geek profile

The Kry - Beautiful
Good guitar work in this; I say good, it sounds good but I can't play so I don't know if it's really simple to play or not. Anyway, it's a lot like a love song, but loses normal secularism when they sing:

No one
No one else in all the Heavens
Can love me like you do
No one else can give to me
The gift of life
When I am so undeserving
You moved the world for me
Now I can see
That it's clear when I look in your eyes

Hillsong: United - Most High
Gotta have Hillsongs in any list of Christian songs. Just straight out praise. Woo yeah! Main lyrics include:

Put a new song in my mouth,
Of praise to You,
And the world will see and fear Your name...

Worthy...
Worthy is the Lord,
Worthy...
Worthy is the Lord, Most High!

Steven Curtis Chapman - Dive
Another fun song, probably quite cheesy too! Good lyrics set to a bouncy 90's tune. Awesome.

I'm diving in I'm going deep in over my head I want to be
Caught in the rush lost in the flow in over my head I want to go
The rivers deep the rivers wide the rivers water is alive
So sink or swim I'm diving in

I can't imagine anyone has found this remotely useful... Oh well! I felt like wasting some time and diverting attention away from other, less beneficial activities.

Which reminds me! There was a good talk at my Christian Union this evening (didn't get to play the drums... bah!), and it basically boils down to this. There are kind of two natures inside you, like two dogs fighting each other all of the time; which one wins is ultimately down to us. "But which one will win?". The one we feed the most...

So! Feed the holy dog and starve out the sinful dog inside of you, so that we actually half-deserve the holy person that God is preparing in and for you.

I'm sorry about my awful grammar,overzealous full stop usage and incorrect semicolon usage; but it's just how my thoughts have come out

Monotheism and Tritheism equal?

2006-11-01T00:17:00.000Z

I've been mulling this over and over in my mind, and just can't seem to get it. God is beyond my understanding (obviously) and I will never be able to work Him out. But yet I still try.

Anyway, my previous position seems wrong, I wish it wasn't because it kind of makes sense to me; but it just doesn't stand up to Biblical exegesis.

Basically, the Bible proves beyond doubt that Jesus is God. Not just in the New Testament either but in the Old too. You can dodge past most of the verses, saying that it addresses God in Jesus, not God Jesus; but some are unavoidable.

Isaiah 9:6-7
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this."

Acts 3:14-15
"But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses."

Besides loads of other references.

So where does this leave me? Lost and confused that's where. Jesus is God. Jesus prays to the Father. The Father is God. The Father sends the Spirit down to Earth. The Spirit is God.

Blatent Tritheism if you ask me, but if that's what the Bible says exists, then to logically be a Christian I'd have to accept this. It's very hard. It sounds too close to Tritheism to seem "right". The Trinity is stupidly easy to prove, once you know where to look. It just seems so opposite to Monotheism to be actually real... A funny thing which comes out of this is that we can address God as Them, since He uses the word "us" to reference Himself numerous times in Genesis if we assume that the us isn't referring to God and His angels.

I've heard the "buzzphrase" about the "One God in Three Persons". I don't have an issue with the existence of God, the existence of Jesus and the presence of God's spirit. It's just how they all fit together that's the puzzle.

No wonder theologians have been battling about this for literally centuries, both sides are equally provable, equally defensible and equally believable. Obviously for various different people. Who am I to step into this and try and set things right? I need to go to Bible college.

I'm sure it'll be all right in the end as long as we have faith in God, His life changing effects and following His and Jesus' will and fully trusting Him for salvation.

Strict Monotheism vs Trinity

2006-09-08T02:31:00.000+01:00

Foreword

I have no logical structure to this post, but I will shuffle it around as I write it, and hopefully it will make some sort of literary sense.

I suggest a prayer to help you realise my angle on things, and not to just raise the armour of God and blank me out.

Introduction

As some of you may or may not know, I am having issues with the christian view of God. Namely that God is one God but in three divine persons. I cannot reconcile monotheism (belief in one God) with christian trinitarianism (belief in one God in three persons). This will cause a stir within all Christian circles and would probably get me anathemitized from any Christian church. God gave us rational thought, I do not think that he asked us to disregard it when coming to something as vitally important like faith and belief; although Job was told to basically belt up when he questioned God. These are the basic tenets of trinitarian belief:

Each member of the Trinity is fully God, but only the unity of them is God
God is one God in three persons
Jehovah is God, Father and Creator
Jesus is God, the Son of God and Saviour of Creation
Holy Spirit is God, impregnated Mary and dwells in all Christians
Each member is distinct from each other, but share the same divine essence

Some of these statements don't make sense if actually thought about rather than blithely believed for fear of being outcast. The above items makes it sound like polytheism (belief in many Gods). Before you go saying that you believe in "One God, three persons" consider the following prayers:

Father God, thank you for today and bless this food which we are about to eat. Amen.
Lord Jesus, please forgive me. I have sinned terribly today as I have stolen three shekels and made bread on the Sabbath day. Amen.
Holy Spirit, come upon us! Amen! *Commence frantic shaking and glossolalia*

Now most ardent trinitarian christians have probably said these prayers, or variations of them, but it sounds like they have three separate deities which they pray to depending on the occasion.

Strict Monotheism

The rest of this blog is going to try and reason out each member of the trinity so that monotheism is maintained, the importance of Jesus is upheld and the fact of the Holy Spirit is described.

Jesus as the Son of God, not God the Son

Jesus, when he was alive and doing stuff (like healing, getting angry at the temple and other such fun activities) displayed no innate Godlike abilities. Now "abilities" ascribed to God include omnipotence (all powerful), omniscience (all knowing) and omnipresence (all present); otherwise God would not be God. Jesus was none of these things as the Bible mentions that Jesus was:

not omnipotent - Mark 6:4-6 "But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching."
not omniscient - Matthew 24:35,36 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
not all present - Jesus was one individual with a limited sphere of influence in His ministry
not God
- John 1:18 - "No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (If Jesus was God, then the disciples would have seen God)
- Mark 10:18 - "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." (If Jesus was as good as God, there would be no need for this apparent chastisement of the rich man)
- Mark 14:36 - "And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." (Jesus is asking God to take away the cup of suffering prepared for Him, God would not argue with Himself (since the Trinity is supposedly a perfect three way relationship with all parts mutually supporting the others))
- Psalm 110 - "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." (notice capitalization; if they were equal, both would be LORD)
His name ¨Immanuel¨ meaning God with us, means that God is not against us anymore, since He has sent His Son to die for us

These above points demonstrate that Jesus was not God while on Earth, and any power given to Him came from God. Any of the times that He displayed suprahuman (beyond human) powers was when God allowed Him to.

Christians may rush to John's Gospel to defend their idea of God the Son, and usually the best verse from it is John 10:30 "I and the Father are one". It is good to read on through John 17:20-26. Now is this verse suggesting that we are all to become part of the Holy Trinity, since Jesus is one with God, and He prays for all believers to be one in God as well?

Another port of call is John 1 in the introduction of the Word. Trinitarians describe this as the 2nd Person of the Godhead Trinity, who becomes God incarnate in Jesus Christ. A way which maintains strict monotheism without doing what the JWs do (add a few words here and there to support their big God small god doctrines) or what liberal Christians do (pick 'n' mix Bible, or in some cases absolutely refuse to be corrected by the word of God), is proposed here:

The Word is God's plan of salvation for humankind.

John 1:1 - When the Word is described as being God, it could mean that it belongs to God
John 1:2 - God had the plan from the beginning, it wasn't suddenly cooked up because things didn't go the way He wanted
John 1:3 - Without the plan, there would be no point in creation if there was no hope
John 1:9 - When the Word becomes flesh, the plan of salvation is embodied in Jesus

The Holy Spirit as God's personal spirit not as a distinct entity

The Holy Spirit appears in Genesis 1 as the hovering Spirit of God, and numerous points in the NT as a dove or as the Holy Spirit. But this could be described as God's personal spirit presence on earth, there is no need for a "third person" of the Trinity. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would therefore be blasphemy against God since it is His spirit, and not a part of God or the third person of the Trinity.

Also, the spirit of God is not some sort of Star Wars force like some New Age religions and the Jehovah's Witnesses believe; it is God's personal spirit presence here on Earth, like when He appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai amidst fire and smoke.

Exodus 19:17-25 - And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.
Exodus 33:14 - And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

Scriptural Problems with Strict Monotheism

Problems include Matthew's baptismal formula, the three witnesses in Heaven and places where Peter mentions Jesus as God and the Saviour. The formula problem is allegedly a passage added by trinitarians to support their view after the Council of Nicaea; the same explanation goes for the witnesses; and the Peter reference can be "solved" with the addition of a comma after God (commas weren't used in Hebrew/Greek scriptures since the meaning is obtained through the words alone; whereas commas are needed in english since it refines the writer's thoughts and intentions).

Another problem is that in the Old Testament, God seems to use the "royal we" when seemingly refering to Himself (Creation, The Fall, Tower of Bable, Sending of Isaiah) . This can be explained by the fact he was talking to His angels. I do not want to rip off someone's work and claim it as my own, because that's what I'd basically be doing if I just reiterated his explanation here, so I have provided the link below to his essay.

Before trinitarians think I'm making the above up, I give the following 3rd party links:

This will be an ongoing journey which I, and doubtless many others, will carry on with. I just pray that God will show me or tell me what is right.

Summary

My own thoughts and limited research on this subject have lead me to believe that trinitarianism or nontrinitarianism are not salvation affecting doctrines, but very difficult ones to prove either way nonetheless. My views of Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are summed up in this small list

Jehovah is God, Father and Creator and totally worthy of all worship
Jesus is God's Son, Saviour of Creation, and it is because of Him that the world had a reason to exist. Praise offered to Him glorifies the Father in Heaven since in effect it praises God for sending Jesus to save us all. Faith and following the example of Christ is what brings us salvation, trusting in God and His Son for life both here and after
The Holy Spirit is God's personal spirit presence in the world, not a separate person of God

All these points are compatible with strict monotheism (in that there is one, unique God, not a conglomerate of holy beings) and practiced trinitarianism with a few changes; ie all prayers go to the Father made possible by the sacrifice of His Son Jesus.

If this was a salvation affecting doctrine, it would turn God into a petty and unrealistic God. Only God can comprehend God (which is also an argument Trinitarians use when they're pressed) and so ANY description which our minds can make up is wrong; be it a Monotarian, Binatarian or Trinitarian view of what God is. Age of a view of God is no qualifier, since Hindus have been around for far longer than any religion, and they're polytheistic.

Mattianity

2006-08-02T02:16:00.000+01:00

I believe that God has placed a plan within me, which Ephesians 4:12-14 sums up quite nicely:

"To equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes."

My feelings and thoughts make me want to see the whole of Christendom united under one banner, weeding out all the manmade barriers, false teachings and doctrines and providing the best possible organizational witness to the unchristian masses.

This all sounds well and good but I believe that it can be done. I don't believe that God has had any role in dividing the church against itself and taking glory away from Him; it's just humans being petty and self seeking. I believe that men in power have sought to glorify themselves (e.g. Joseph Smith claimed new revelation which goes totally against the Bible, Charles Taze Russel claimed all of Christianity was basically a farce and only JWs have it right) and in doing so have schismed away from the faith, creating endless denominations. In other words, all these denominations are man-made and hence can be man-unmade.

This is a mammoth task; if I start but end up dying before its completion, someone else can take my place (I pray they do). This is why I try to learn as much as possible about the various Christian sects and denominations; I am trying to find the bits of truth present in each and hopefully come up with the most true and logical theology (whoever heard of three being one, each seperate yet fully one; what a load of mystical gibberish [sorry that will be a mini rant for later]).

I want to go to Bible College but I can't see how I can, since I have no money and my Dad and Local Education Authority probably would not pay any fees or support me going to one. I shall have to stick to self teaching, which is alright but nowhere near enough for what I need.

Of course I don't want to start my own denomination off, (lol that would be funny) but a movement of this kind would be fine.

Most of the groundwork has been done, in the guise of various apologetics written by each sect in defence of its practices and beliefs . It's just synthesizing them that's the problem...

Christians are welcome to intercede on my behalf, in fact please do.

Sorry to the nonchristians and the sunday Christians who don't actually care what I said above.

FRENZY!!!

2006-06-10T16:06:00.000+01:00

WOW!!!

This was a brilliant concert!
If anyone went, comment!

It was a big Christian concert held in Edinburgh on the 10th of June from 12 noon 'til 10 at night!!! Awesome worshippage was had by all. God was left in no doubt who was Lord that day . (Cough, Hillsong, cough)

David Crowder Band

Bands included the awesome Starfield, the absolutely brilliant David Crowder Band, the beautiful and loud Kendall Payne as well as Christian mainstream such as Delirious, Hillsong United and Tim Hughes. Of course there were others, but I forget their names

Hillsongs United

Getting there was quite weird. I had to catch a national express bus from Carlisle at 04:30 in the morning, my dad drove me there in recorrd time, I was slightly late getting up . I arrived in Edinburgh at 07:30. I then milled around the terminus, lost for a bit until I decided that asking the information desk would be a stellar idea. I then wondered outside after procuring the information needed to speed me on my way to the venue. Caught the airport shuttle bus to Ingliston and then walked for about 15 minutes towards frenzy.

At this point it was about 08:30, with 3 and a bit hours to go until the gates opened to the Christian masses, I had serious time to burn. Luckily there was a small hotel next to the venue, so I went in and asked and got a breakfast. It was about to get better though, as I met a fair few band members there. I met the whole of David Crowder Band (awesome bunch) and their road managers, Shaun the vocalist/bassist from Starfield and Mark the vocalist/guitarist from Verra Cruz. I didn't get pictures with those two though , I forgot to ask. Still I met them and that's all that matters .

David Crowder Band and I

So I had eaten my breakfast (which cost an extortionate ï¿½11.50, so I ate my fill of "free" grapefruit), and spent about 2 hours waiting outside the gate; whereupon a group of girls befriended me since I was on my own. Yay! Hurry for Americans and South Africans. Lindsey and Susie are two of the girls who have myspace so naturally they're on my profile. w00t.

Ahhhh wish I was back there again!!

Weird, very surreal but lucid dream

2006-05-22T11:44:00.000+01:00

I had a dream...

I don't often have dreams this vivid but this is the first time I've written it down.

I had to camp out on this very very windy mountainside in an alcove in the mountain. The wind was howling like mad. I struggled to keep all my stuff together because all my stuff was blowing everywhere. Some walker couple came past and he asked "You looking for something mate? You won't find anything here". I replied "No I'm just trying to get all my stuff together". He laughed and they carried on. I eventually managed to get it all together somewhat and found a nice not-as-windy corner. It was still blazing sunlight (or some sort of bright light) and I then slept for a bit in the dream, safe and warm in my black arctic sleeping bag (which I don't have in real life).

I "woke up" on the previous day before I went camping and I was asking someone how far the sea went up to the alcove (which was now a sea cave), he said all the way to the walls of the alcove. I then discussed with some women at a garage about how it went all the way to the roof. She was quite short sighted and asked if I looked attractive so she could introduce me to her daughter (?!). Then red wine was handed out and I talked about how I used to water it down to make it last longer (which I never have), there was a mixture of disbelief and "I do that too" from the gathered people. Some of the people I recognized from my old Whitehaven school...

I then went into the building which now kind of resembled a cross between the entrance to Hensingham Church and the a Post Office. I there met Katie Green from Keswick School (whom I haven't met for going on 4 years now) and her made up boyfriend (I eventually asked his name and was called Daniel) and wondered around with my mum, Ross (it may have been, but not sure who it was) and Katie looking for stuff.
I found this wooden puzzle cube and attempted to do it (since I'd had one before in real life and had memorized how to do it) but couldn't, at this point Nick came in and said "Give it here". I gave it to him and he promptly mashed it together and it broke. The cube (or what what left of it) had transformed into those little rubber puzzle pieces you use to make those small cubes in his hands. All the bits where broken on the floor so Nick and I picked them all up. We put them in this black velvet bag a shop assistant held out and were told rather sternly that we'd have to pay for it. Katie by this point had wondered over to the Post Office section.
So we went to customer services we were asked if we had clubcards. The assistant was a rather bitchy blonde girl. I said that Nick didn't so she turned to me and demanded my clubcard, I got confused since I didn't have one. Mum saved the day by giving hers. The assistant spat out the words "That's 17 pounds 95 for the broken merchandise" and smirked at us. Nick couldn't believe it and said "WHAT?! £17.95?!!?". "Yeh" she retorted. She was quite insulting so I started doing impressions of her and saying "Mong" at which point she called security. I glanced over at Katie and she was still at the Post Office. We all acted civilised and acted as if we were just waiting. Eventually this security guard (he looked like an atypical new york cop, complete with shirt and brown trousers, some coffee stains and a world weary face) came over and asked the assistant if we were southerners. "Nope we're northeners" I said. "What? Really? What part of the north?". "North west, Cumbria". The security guard said something unintelligible, so I said "pardon?", again I couldn't make out what he said. "Sorry could you say that again please?". "Could you not afford a proper holiday, and just came here?". "What? No we're just here to see friends". "Ok, well, don't get into any more trouble" and he left us.
I reunited with Katie and co and lost my mum, Nick and Ross, and went outside whereupon...

I woke up on a slightly different mountain alcove and had a view of the sky. I was on the phone to Jenni discussing how Daniel might be related to Emma (Ross' girlfriend) and that they had the same surname at one time but both had changed it. It got quite in depth and I can't remember how the conversation went. I then babbled about how the clouds were moving quite fast and kind of looked like black poodles (which they did, all black and fluffy). It was really weird, blue sky and small black clouds moving really fast. The scene faded and...

I woke up in a cross between the sea cave and the mountain alcove. I was trapped by the incoming tide in this cave. I checked at the mouth of the cave but it had been blocked by loads of sediment and rocks. I slowly walked backwards thinking "I'm going to die here, I'm actually going to drown!!!" and started to panic. I ripped off most of my heavy layers and started breathing deeply and fast and considered digging my way out through the sediment, when suddenly I spotted a wire fence to the left which led to the outside. I prayed "Thank you Jesus, thanks so much!!" which any sane person would. I scrambled out to check if there was enough time to save all my stuff. I managed to save 3 backpacks (one of which was ross' schoolbag) and two hiking rucksacks. some stuff had dropped in the water so I swam around trying to grab it. I grabbed my badminton racket and tried to grab two wooden tennis rackets using the badminton racket to nudge them closer. Didn't work. So I surfaced and hauled my stuff further inland, thankful I was alive.

I then heard a baby crying and dived back in. The cave had disappeared, replaced with a steep shoreline. I swam as fast as I could towards the baby, which was miraculously managing to cry out underwater. It was still in it's pram. I forced air into it and swam towards the surface. I managed to save it and began to wonder where it came from. I ran along the shoreline road and got faster and faster until I was riding a motor bike, I saw a mother with a double pram with a seat empty dialling on her mobile (supposedly for the emergency services, but she didn't seem to be too concerned) so I gave the baby back to her. She didn't seem that grateful so I continued along the road. For some reason my view zoomed out to show a view of Portugal all the way to Italy with flashing dots. It kind of looked like the Iberian peninsula but wasn't, but I knew it was of those two countries.

I was going along the dual carriageway (with no opposite carriageway) which resembled the one on the way to that Penrith place, Rheged. There were lots of cars and coned off places which I managed to ride around. I slowed down and realized that I didn't have any of my stuff. So I turned round and started to go back and thought "Damn my stuff's miles away, I don't want to have to go all that way back". Then I spotted my stuff in a grass clearing and presumed God must've moved it there for my convenience, again I thanked Him. I then proceeded to try and pack all my stuff into a rather nice looking white travel suitcase. I say try because some people began to walk over my bags and other stuff. I wasn't really that bothered.

I may have dreamt more, but it wasn't as vivid as the rest so has faded into nothing

I think I then woke up for real, dazed at the intensity of this dream and how it still lingers after half an hour of trying to get it down. I'm still going backwards and forwards adding bits I remember.